(Abt 1020/1030-)


Family Links

1. Manassès III de Rethel Comte de Rethel


  • Born: Abt 1020-1030 1
  • Marriage (1): Manassès III de Rethel Comte de Rethel about 1045-1055 1

  General Notes:

JUDITH, daughter of --- ([1020/30]-). Hugues de Rethel names his parents Manassès and Judith in a charter dated 1081 for the church of Braux. Her birth date range is estimated for consistency with the estimated birth dates of her descendants.

Her origin is unknown, three possible origins have been suggested:

1. JUDITH [de Roucy, daughter of --- & his wife ---]. The Genealogiciæ Scriptoris Fusniacensis names "Lebaldus de Malla et…Iveta comitissa de Retest" as brother and sister of "Ebalus de Roceio" and, in a later passage, "Iuetta soror…Letaldi de Marla" as mother of "Hugonem comitem de Retest". The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines names "comitissa de Reitest, uxor comitis Manesserii Iutta" as sister of "fraters Ebalus comes de Roceio et Letardus domnus de Marla". Given the estimated birth date of Judith, wife of Comte Manassès, as shown above, it is chronologically impossible for her to have been the daughter of Giselbert Comte de Roucy, who died in the last years of the 10th century. However, it is not impossible that she was the uterine half-sister of Ebles Comte de Roucy, assuming that their mother remarried after the death of her husband Giselbert.

2. [IDA] [de Boulogne, daughter of EUSTACHE I Comte de Boulogne & his wife Mathilde de Louvain.] Receuil des historiens des croisades, Runciman and Riley-Smith all say that the paternal grandmother of Baudouin II King of Jerusalem was the daughter of Eustache I Comte de Boulogne, but the primary source on which this suggestion is based has not yet been identified. Runciman and Riley-Smith both call her "Ida", which is inconsistent with the charter evidence cited above, Runciman naming her husband "Baldwin of Le Bourg Count of Rethel" which is doubly inconsistent. There is no mention of such a daughter in the Genealogica comitum Boloniensium. Chronologically, this origin is more appealing than the Roucy hypothesis, given the estimated birth date range of Eustache II Comte de Boulogne, son of Comte Eustache I, in [1015/20].

3. [JUDITH] of Lotharingia, daughter of GODEFROI "le Barbu" Duke of Lower Lotharingia & his first wife Doda ---. In the commentary to "Li Estoire de Jerusalem et d'Antioche", the wife of Manassès is referred to as an unnamed daughter of Godefroi "le Barbu" Duke of Lower Lotharingia, therefore sister of Ida who married Eustache II Comte de Boulogne. If this is correct, it would provide an explanation for the evidently close family relationship between Baudouin I King of Jerusalem and his successor King Baudouin II, the exact nature of which has not been confirmed from other sources. While no primary source has yet been identified which provides direct confirmation of this hypothesis, the charter dated [1065/66] under which "dux et marchio Godefridus…uxoris mee Beatricis" confirmed the rights of the church of Verdun Sainte-Vanne was issued with the consent of "comitis Manasse" and is subscribed by "comitis Manasse et filii eius Rainaldi…". If Manassès Comte de Rethel was Duke Godefroi's son-in-law, this would provide an explanation for his involvement in this charter which is otherwise difficult to explain. 1

Judith married Manassès III de Rethel Comte de Rethel about 1045-1055.1 (Manassès III de Rethel Comte de Rethel died after 1080 1.)


1 Charles Cawley, <i>Medieval Lands</i>.

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