Sir Thomas de Munchensy of Edwardstone, Suffolk

  Research Notes:

ar Newsgroup ~

The authoritative Complete Peerage 9 (1936): 417 (sub Munchensy) has a
brief account of the life of Sir Thomas de Munchensy, of Edwardstone and Lindsey, Suffolk. The following information is provided:

"Sir Thomas I de Munchensy, son and heir, was aged 3 at his father's death. He proved his age, and had livery of his lands in 1337, was a knight by 1351, and still living in the autumn of 1375." END OF QUOTE.

No information is given by Complete Peerage regarding any wife or wives of Sir Thomas de Munchensy. However, it appears that Sir Thomas had at least two wives. His first wife (whose name is not known) was the mother of his son and heir, Thomas, who was born before 1343 (he being of age before 1364). Following the death of his first wife, Sir Thomas de Munchensy married (2nd) before Trinity term (7 June\endash 28 June) 1363 (date of fine) Joyce, widow of Hugh le Blount (died 20 Sept. 1361), of Gyng (now Buttsbury), Essex. Evidence of Sir Thomas' marriage to Joyce le Blount, widow, is provided by a fine dated 1363 and 1364 published in Feet of Fines for Essex 3 (1929\endash 49): 141.

The published abstract of the fine reads as follows:

Year: 1364. Trinity, 37 Edward III [1363] and Trinity, 38 Edward III [1364]. William de Ferrariis, knight, and Margaret his wife, pl. John son and heir of Hugh Blount, knight, def. The manor of Gyngeioyberdlaundry and the advowson of the church of Herwardstok, which Thomas Munchensy and Joyce his wife hold for her life. Pl. and the heirs of William to hold the remainder of the chief lords. Consideration 300 marks. This agreement was made after the death of Thomas in the presence of Joyce, and she did fealty." END OF QUOTE.

The fine above establishes that Thomas de Munchensy and Joyce Blount, widow, were married by Trinity term (7 June\endash 28 June) 1363, and that Thomas de Munchensy died shortly before Trinity term (29 May\endash 19 June) 1364. The inquisition post mortem of Joyce's first husband, Sir Hugh le Blount, taken in 1361 may be found at Cal. IPM 11 (1935): 1\endash 20.

Additional confirmation that Sir Thomas de Munchensy died before Trinity term 1364, is further provided by a document dated 17 June 1364, whereby Sir Thomas de Munchensey's son and heir, Thomas de Munchensy, settled his father's lands on various trustees.

Source: Online Discovery catalogue

Suffolk Record Office, Ipswich Branch: The Iveagh (Phillipps) Suffolk
Manuscripts, Reference: HD 1538/209

"Quitclaim

Creation dates: 17 Jun 1364

Scope and Content

1. Thomas, son of Thomas de Monchansy, kt
2. Ralph de Shelton, kt

Ralph Swyft jun.

William son of John de Walsoken, vicar of Edwardiston' [Edwardstone]

John le Webbe of Edwardiston'

(1) quitclaims to (2), manors of Edwardiston' and Leleseye [Lindsey],
advowson of chapel of Leleseye, all lands, tenements, rents and
services in towns of Edwardiston', Leleseye, Groton, Kerseye [Kersey],
Holton and Brantham, and all knights fees which Sir Thomas de
Monchansy, (1)'s father held in Suffolk, Norfolk and Essex. Witnesses:
William de Clopton, Thomas de Morieux, William de Rochyngg, kts, John
de Cauendissh, Ralph de Walsham and others. Given at Bury St Edmunds,
Monday before feast of St John the Baptist, 38 Edw. III.

Endorsed with memorandum of enrolment before the King, Trinity term 38
Edw. III (1364), roll 44. Seal missing. Phillipps MS No. 35924." END OF QUOTE.

+ + + + + + + + + +

Regarding Sir Thomas de Munchensy's widow, Joyce, I find the following two records regarding Joyce following Sir Thomas' death.

l. In 1365 John son and heir of Hugh le Blount granted that Dame Joyce his mother have common of pasture in the outwood of Ramsden, Essex of Nicholas de Barenton. Reference: C.C.R. 1364\endash 1368 (1910): 174.

2. In 1371 Joyce, widow of Sir Hugh le Blount, Knt. granted the manor of Gyng (now Buttsbury), Essex to Edmund de Stebbyng, clerk, and another for a term of 12 years at a yearly rent of 40 marks. Reference: C.C.R. 1369\endash 1374 (1911): 322.

Regarding Complete Peerage's claim that Sir Thomas de Munchensy was "still living in the autumn of 1375," this apparently comes from a Common Pleas lawsuit dated 1375 which concerns the chapel of Lindsey, Suffolk. The lawsuit may be viewed at the following weblink:

Court of Common Pleas, CP40/460, image 1007f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT4/E3/CP40no460/aCP40no460fronts/IMG_1007.htm).

The lawsuit is quite lengthy. It discusses various presentations to the chapel of Lindsey, Suffolk previously made by Sir Thomas de Munchensy and his immediate ancestors. As far as I can tell, the lawsuit does not directly state Sir Thomas de Munchensy was living in 1375. Rather, this is merely an assumption made by Complete Peerage.

Among other things covered by the lawsuit, it is stated that Sir Thomas de Munchensy's father, William de Munchensy (died 1318), presented Roger Botetourt to the chapel of Lindsey, Suffolk. Roger Botetourt can be readily identified as the younger brother of Sir John Botetourt, Lord Botetourt, whose wife, Maud Fitz Thomas, was the half-sister of William de Munchensy.

As for other lawsuits, I've located another Common Pleas lawsuit which involves Hugh son and heir of Hugh le Blount, Knt. and his wife, Joyce, dated Easter term 1348:

Court of Common Pleas, CP40/354, image 1314 (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E3/CP40no354/bCP40no354fr201toEnd/IMG_1314.htm).

In summary, we see that Sir Thomas de Munchensy had at least two wives, _____ and Joyce le Blount, widow. Evidence proves that Sir Thomas died shortly before 17 June 1364. He was not living in 1375, as claimed by Complete Peerage.

For interest's sake, the following is a list of the 17th Century New
World immigrants who descend from Sir Thomas de Munchensy (died 1364):

Thomas Booth, Nathaniel Burrough, Elizabeth, John, and Thomas Butler, William Clopton, Anne Derehaugh, Edmund, Edward, Richard, & Matthew Kempe, Mary Johanna Somerset, Jemima Waldegrave.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

  Events

• Inquisition: Writ of certiorari, 7 Feb 1337. ² 104. WILLIAM DE MONTE CANISO, of Edwardestone.

Writ of certiorari on the petition of Thomas de Monte Caniso, asserting that he is the son and next heir of the said William, and of full age, and praying for the livery of the lands &c. which are of his inheritance and came to the hands of Isabella, queen of England, of whom they were held as of the honour of Eye, which was in her hand when the said William died, and which are in the wardship of Andrew de Bures, by the demise of John, late bishop of Ely, to whom the said queen committed them until the lawful age of the said Thomas, and which are now held of the king, as of the said honour; 7 February, 11 Edward III.

SUFFOLK. Inq. 20 February, 11 Edward III.

Edwardestone. The manor held of the king, as of the honour of Eye, by service of a knight's fee and a quarter. Andrew de Bures holds the said manor as abovesaid.

Bradefeld Seintcler. The manor held of the abbot of St. Edmund's by service of half a knight's fee.

Thomas his son, aged 21 years at the feast of the Purification last, is his next heir.

The said Andrew was present at the taking of this inquisition.

C. Edw. III. File 50. (15.)

Thomas married.¹

Thomas next married Joyce before 28 Jun 1363.¹